Petr Cech and Jens Lehmann will renew an old rivalry on Saturday when they take part in the Game4Ukraine charity match at Chelsea’s Stamford Bridge.
The game will raise money to rebuild schools and educational resources for children in Ukraine, with football legends such as Cech and Lehmann coming together with a host of musical stars.
Telegraph Sport spent a fascinating hour in the company of former Chelsea and Arsenal goalkeepers, who picked their way through a number of subjects including the Invincibles, Chelsea’s 2004-05 title-winning team, Kevin Nolan’s bum and sweeper keepers.
Let’s start with an argument, which team was best – Arsenal’s 2003-04 Invincibles or Chelsea 2004-05 team?
Jens Lehmann: “When I started in the Invincible year, Pete wasn’t even at Chelsea, so probably it would have been different if he had been!”
Petr Cech: “In my first year, in 04/05, we played the Invincibles and played a 2-2 and a 0-0, so who was better? How do you say which team was better? They won the title without losing and we won the title breaking all the records. So I don’t know. You had nine draws, no Jens?
JL: “11? 27 won and 11 draws or 29 won and nine draws (it was actually 26 wins and 12 draws). I don’t remember exactly.”
PC: “Something like that. But if you look at that now and the League in the last few years, whoever would draw nine games wouldn’t win the title in the end. You would probably go Invincible, but maybe not win the League.”
JL: “We had different styles, completely. I saw John Terry sometimes standing behind you defending your goal! The entertaining part was probably as well about Jose Mourinho and Arsene Wenger. That rivalry. It shifted a little bit away from Arsene and Sir Alex Ferguson to Arsene versus Jose. He was provoking all the time and he needed to make his own footprint. It was quite funny, even for the players. You don’t see so much of it now, not with Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola.”
It felt like Chelsea and especially the wealth of Roman Abramovich got under the skin of Arsenal a bit…
JL: “Arsenal was building a huge stadium when Roman Abramovich came in and started spending all the money, and that was quite challenging, whereas I think the Chelsea stadium is still like 40,000, right?
PC: “42,000, well 41,862 I think, if you want to be precise.”
JL: “But when Roman Abramovich came in it was not pleasant for the other teams because he was very ambitious and the investment was quite successful.”
PC: “We built a strong team. We had the money and we bought good players, but it was not just signing the superstars at the time. When I came and Didier Drogba came, ok we played in our national teams but we were quite young with the Portuguese guys coming in as well. The club used the money, but we built a really strong team that could last for a decade and that was the key to success, it was not just about spending money.”
Would you have fancied taking on the current Manchester City team with Arsenal 03/04 and Chelsea 04/05?
JL: “Of course, I think City are an amazing team but, physically, we were stronger. They have great pace, but we had great pace as well.”
PC: “I would definitely want to see that. To take these teams and put these teams against each other. It would be very interesting to see. What would happen on the pitch. The style of the football was different, but Arsenal were very technical and they were able to play fast, and they had a midfield with a real engine, and people who could kick as well, no problem.
“Chelsea had that, we had a huge engine in the middle of the pitch, so it would be really interesting to see how those teams would compete. It’s always difficult to predict what would happen and it would be very different styles, but it doesn’t mean it would give the advantage straight away to City.”
What’s the biggest change in goalkeeping since you guys were playing?
JL: “When I came to England, I was surprised by the intensity and the style of attacking by the strikers and even defenders at set pieces. They came to the keeper and pushed him and jumped into him. I liked it because I was good with my fists and when the striker or defender came and saw the fist, then he was a little bit more careful. I remember, you must have played against him as well Pete, was he called Duncan Ferguson from Everton? Oh…
PC: “I was surprised by the amount of players in the box too. I came to England and you went for a cross and you realised, oh there are six players hunting the ball and hunting the goalie. But I always enjoyed playing at Bolton and Blackburn and I think I only conceded one goal at Bolton or maybe never even. Blackburn was similar, although they were really physical.
“I had a huge fight with Kevin Nolan and Ferguson, when he came on with Everton, and James Beattie and all these big players. Nolan was a proper pain because he was very clever. He would block you in the goalmouth and he was so clever with his movement. And he was very clever with his bum, pushing it into you and you couldn’t even reach over him. There was a game at the Bridge when me and Kevin Davies just started punching each other, literally, every time the ball came in, he gave me an elbow, then I’d come with the knee. It was all about who could hit the other one harder without getting punished. And Stoke, everybody hated playing at Stoke but I loved it.”
Jens, I never got the impression Arsenal loved playing at Stoke…
JL: “They knew how to punish us! Over time, they found a way to hurt us, especially when they had Peter Crouch. He was very difficult to defend because he had good timing and no matter which defender played, we just found it difficult to defend Peter Crouch. At home it was different, but at Stoke it was tough for us. But it wasn’t just Stoke and Blackburn and those places. I remember my first game against Manchester United where people were punching and really fighting each other, but nobody got a red card. I thought ‘Wow you can do whatever you want here’ but then the punishments came later.”
PC: “You can’t have this any more because of Var because you can’t take the chances any more and people are worried about making fouls. There are not many teams now that you would call what we used to call traditional English football. Maybe Brentford are like that, but pretty much everybody else plays from the back and the goals are from cutbacks and through balls.”
Goalkeepers have to be able to play a lot more with their feet nowadays – would either of you fancy being a sweeper keeper?
PC: “The goalkeeper has to really rely on the ability of the players around him to give him options and have the personality to take the ball. Because if you play inside your own six-yard box and you stop the ball to wait for the player’s movement and he does not move, then you have a problem. When you watch kids now, they all play like that so I think we will see more and more people play this way with no real fear because it will be normal.”
JL: “My issue is players are not being taught the relationship between risk and reward because people don’t really understand that and it’s an advantage when you play in goal to know what’s risky and not risky. This approach, playing out from the back, if the opposition understands what you do then I think statistically it’s not a huge benefit to play like that. The risk of playing out is so much higher and the reward in comparison is pretty low. But, I don’t know why, someone started that approach and now a lot of people are picking up on it and trying to do the same. I have a feeling sometimes that they don’t even know why.”
PC: “Everybody uses City as the example, but Ederson can kick the ball 80 yards, they can play long. They use both, when people come to press too early, the ball goes behind them. When someone just plays short, short, short, you invite the opposition to press, but when you know it can go fast and direct then they have to be careful and you have an advantage.
“I had it at Arsenal under Unai Emery and I really enjoyed it because there were clear rules on when to play short, when to play through midfield and when to go long. I cannot say what the exact rules were because I’m sure they must be using it at Aston Villa! It was always based on what Jens is talking about, risk and reward, and where you might find an advantage.
“When I started with Chelsea and we had Drogba up front, Jose would always say ‘kick the ball 85 yards and he holds the ball against any defender and in three seconds we are in the opposition box’. He always wanted to be in the opposition box in three seconds.
“But, look at the Champions League final. What won the final for City was not Ederson’s passing, he was actually a bit nervous and some passes he even kicked out. But he made three crucial saves, so I always think that goalkeeping will ultimately be about can you make the crucial save at an important time? That’s what I like when you talk about goalkeepers.”
Why is the Game4Ukraine important to you both?
PC: “I got asked by Andriy Shevchenko and I wanted to help my friend, but this is a much bigger thing than being friends or playing in a charity game. It’s about education and I strongly believe that this is the most important thing for everybody. And when you have people in difficulties and living in war, they do not know what each hour will bring. But at least for the time children can be in school, for those hours their lives can look more normal. That’s why I’m glad I can participate and hopefully it makes enough money that schools can be rebuilt.”
JL: “Education is the most important thing in life and people should have the chance to get the best education possible. No child in Ukraine is responsible for what is happening there and it’s a very tragic situation that goes to all of our hearts. Sometimes the media coverage is not always as extensive as it was at the beginning but we must still try to help and hopefully this game can contribute to education resuming in Ukraine. It must also keep the attention of people on what is happening because it is not justified to have a war so close to us and to not do anything.”
_ Tickets can still be purchased for the Game4Ukraine charity match at Chelsea’s Stamford Bridge at_ ****www.game4ukraine.com
